Thursday, March 18, 2010

I don't agree with Anna.

The blogsphere recently rolled on the wrong side of my home server with their "Single Abstract Noun". I warned of two things: AD is FULL and stay away from Goldshire. It wasn't a joke. I also suggested those with RP interest contact reputable groups like Agency.

Now Cranky suggested on the SAN boards that folks ICly do things to confuse or disrupt the bads, and to screenshot and share. Her suggestions were stuff like "Azeroth Vice, here to break up prostitution." She did suggest censoring names to hide people's identities. It's not terrible and AD-US sees much worse with the fact that we get invaded by Blackrock any time it's down. I've considered doing similar things with my return to Silvermoon as my hangout (sans the screenshot/public mocking thing), it's really not that bad.

Now Anna is over in her corner of the blogsphere, not even a member of SAN, totally flipping out over the idea. Anna takes a strong stance that you're never supposed to ever disrupt people's RP no matter how bad it is even if it's through RP, even if that bad is godmoding your character. I don't agree.

If my raid core is having a fun time in the Cybermoon tavern, trashing the town, drinking and brawling like some sort of Buck-o-Nine or Flogging Molly song, and we're disrupting some people having text sex upstairs, great, so be it! They can go download Second Life or some other free MMOSG or even a game made specifically for cybersex and get their jollies there and stop rubbing it in the faces of us decent folks.

There is nothing wrong with mocking the stupid.
In fact, stupid is stressful. Bad RP is stressful. Retarded Twlight vamptards raping canon is stressful and unfun. People telling me that my characters are madly in love with them and we should go cyber is not fun.

Letting off steam is healthy!

Why should I afford any decency or respect to bad rpers propositioning my guildmates and I for sex as we hang around our bench in Silvermoon minding our own business? Is it wrong for my character to look at such cyberwhore in the face and say, disdainfully, "Begone from my sights, whore." How about him looking at the troll, the one breaking canon preaching about Elune and claiming to be an honorary Blood Knight, and hushing him, warning him that if the sentries hear him speaking such heresy that they might throw him out, or worse, kill him. (Which is probably a canon reaction, seeing as how Silvermoon is like a very pretty 1984 with pointy ears. Belves are also kinda racist and I could not see a troll being made a 'honorary Blood Knight'.)

If my circle of friends and I decide we're sick of being propositioned for text sex (and believe me we are) and we start up a group that walks around in runecloth robes, with offhand books and maces or priestly looking staves and preach about the Naaru and the light and telling folks dressed like women of ill-repute that they should cast off their unclean ways and redeem themselves for the lulz, is it really wrong? It might create conflict and *gasp* roleplay beyond text sex!

If people can RP Twilight vamps, werewolves, prostitutes, and break canon, why can't I RP a very devout Paladin with a very religious social circle trying to purify his homeland from women of loose morals? It's my $30/mo.

Again Anna, it's ok to mock the stupid!
Gevlon did it, didn't he?

BUT I do feel that there's a time and a place for mocking the stupid. Single Abstract Noun is not that place. SAN folks are guests on AD. In SAN, you represent a whole community, mocking the stupid is a bit against the spirit of SAN, fucking with the stupid wearing the SAN tag is a Bad Idea™, it makes folks look bad.

Honestly, I don't think people realized that when the idea was first posted it could be considered bad and griefing. I don't think malice was intended. Anna and whoever else going wild with self-righteous preaching on her blog and creating a massive drama shit-fest and driving Cranky out of the blogshere when this could have been handled privately like adults just made this worse.

Why not report the forum post and let SAN deal with it instead of causing a stink? This feels like bullying, a total witch hunt, and like you're whoring yourself out for attention, Anna. I disagree with all of it and with your point of view.

To those who think the lulz would be funny? Make a new alt if you want to mess with the stupid.

Need to vent? Here are some appropriate places.
Go. Vent. Don't give SAN a bad name.

Cranky made a tiny mistake that could have been handled privately.
Anna turned it into witch hunt against Cranky and SAN and drove Cranky from the blogsphere and SAN.
Anna used obnoxious, self-righteous speech in it, making points I disagree with.

I agree with Soph and to a not so extreme way with Rivs on this.

I think Cranky should come back, if anything, she could just say, "Oops, my bad" and let bygones be bygones.

I think Anna owes Cranky and SAN an apology for her self-righteous witch hunt and smear campaign.
I feel Anna should make that post go byebye and mind her own damn business.
If she wanted to tell people to play nice she could have done so in a much less aggressive and much more elegant way. (Very sappy personal example.)

I'm not afraid of you and I do disagree with you, and since everyone is saying their peace, I'll say mine.


  1. Minor Edit: Cranky posted the idea on her blog, not in the forums. This is what allowed Anna to find it.

  2. While I personally have never encountered ERP (I normally play Alliance on an RP server, don't make any efforts to *avoid* Goldshire, and have never seen or heard anything going on there other than duels and people walking a lot) I don't see why people would get so upset over this idea.

    If you were seeking out bad RP and going out of your way to jump around being annoying and spamming nonsense just to disrupt them, sure I could see that as griefing. But when you're in character, you're interacting with them and making some potentially fun and spontaneous situations. Who says the other people won't take the idea and run with it?

    I don't RP, but that sounds like a lot more interesting than the RP I usually encounter on my home server (which is mostly guilds standing around the cathedral promoting their members for being upstanding citizens of the Alliance and all that). I guess I just don't get it.

  3. Thanks for the link Zan,
    much appreciated.
    I love your post, very well written.

    Also how the devil do you get those fabulous coloured bar thingies?
    ME WANT!

    And why does my google account come up? It won't let me just link from View... Bah, I suck at technology.

  4. So I went and read Anna's post. I've been an avid RPer both on and offline for almost 15 years, and the activities she describes aren't even near the definition of godmodding as I'd understand it. It seems that the idea of RPing has shifted from 'playing a character different than yourself in a new world' to 'co writing a story with friends in a real time environment'.

    By this I mean, part of roleplaying is adapting to your surroundings and other people while in-character. This exactly the opportunity Cranky has created, albeit in a very trollesque manner. A good RPer stays in character and would deal with the new variable presented to them, and have a good time doing it.

    Where as these days it seems people just want to be left alone to play with one or two friends within the scene they have already established. Which is fine... but why use a MMO... AIM would be more than enough. /sigh

    And of course, text-sex isn't RPing. Period. At least not the sort that belongs in a fantasy game. (Well, I wouldn't say that there's no place for it, but if that's all you're doing, take it somewhere else more appropriate.)So idf someone is text-sexxing I don't think the rules for griefing or godmodding apply to them anyways, so harass em all you want.

    Anywho I'll end /walloftext with Anna needs to be less sensitive and needs to learn what the definition of godmodding and griefing are. (Both by Blizz's ToS and by the common RPG community.)

  5. Let me turn it around a little bit. Assuming your premise that "it's OK to mock the stupid" is accurate, what happens when you run across somebody that thinks YOU'RE the "stupid?" Is it OK for them to then disrupt your roleplay or event?

    This: "Is it wrong for my character to look at such cyberwhore in the face and say, disdainfully, "Begone from my sights, whore." How about him looking at the troll, the one breaking canon preaching about Elune and claiming to be an honorary Blood Knight, and hushing him, warning him that if the sentries hear him speaking such heresy that they might throw him out, or worse, kill him." That is, IMO, NOT WRONG AT ALL. You're responding in-character, they're responding in-character, that's how it should be done.

    But that isn't what that original blog post was about. The direct quote from CH's original is this: "in character, find a way to confuse and annoy the terrible RP-ers." Confuse and annoy. Not "roleplay with." Not "gently correct." "Confuse and annoy." What you are doing in your examples is not "confuse and annoy."

    I still do not see where you're getting self-righteousness out of what Anna posted, and I dare you to show me a single insult of Cranky Healer in that post. She's passionate about the subject because she's seen the damage that something like that suggestion can cause, as have I. We've both seen the "RP police" try to use similar "confuse and annoy" tactics to drive off the "bad RPers". IT NEVER WORKS. It ends up doing nothing but engendering forum flamewars, and running off potential roleplayers who see it and think, "man, those RPers are a bunch of jerks."

    You want to head over to Warcraft Sues? Go for it, I'll probably read what you post and laugh at it. You want to actually attempt to "confuse and annoy" roleplayers in-game? That's reportable.

  6. Honestly, if someone isn't really RPing as Blizz is intending them too, (ie using the world of Azeroth and it's established lore)then confusing and annoying them isn't an offense.

    Oh additionally, if someone is RPing as a half werewolf/half twilightard vampire, blood elf paladin and their friend is the troll shaman who is the Azerothian pop starlet who does porn on the side... there is nothing wrong with making them look stupid and mocking them. That is not RPing. That is just dumb. That's not opinion, that's fact.

    See, I think the problem here lies that Cranky seemed to want to drive the scum of the RP world out of WoW, not the people who were just bad RPers.

    Basically I think Jacqueline the lvl 29 Nelf priestess with the cliche clumsiness and short anime temper is fine. Inuyashadin98 the lvl 18 half dog paladin that wants to bang all the hot nelf babes is not.

    And if anyone wants to try and tell me Inuyashadin98 has the right to pollute an RP server with his trash, without being mocked or trolled, then they are an idiot.

    (All names herein are made up on the spot, no offense to any short tempered anime nelfs or anyone actually named Inuyashadin98 was intended. Though that dude should really pay for a name change if he exists.)

  7. Thank you for this post. The thing that's probably been bugging me most about this whole incident now is how everyone seems to agree that what Cranky said was oh so bad and Anna is oh so justified. Butting into someone else's roleplay in an open world and adding something of your own is not automatically griefing, it's how a lot of good roleplay starts in the first place. Talking to someone in character for fun is not non-roleplayers griefing roleplayers, it's simply roleplaying.


Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.